1 00:00:11,860 --> 00:00:09,100 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:11,870 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:25,540 --> 00:00:13,930 [Music] 4 00:00:29,290 --> 00:00:25,550 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 5 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:29,300 episode number 532 for the 30th of 6 00:00:35,709 --> 00:00:32,090 December 2018 richardsaunders here with 7 00:00:39,100 --> 00:00:35,719 you from the San Francisco Bay Area it's 8 00:00:42,579 --> 00:00:39,110 the last skeptic zone for 2018 next year 9 00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:42,589 2019 will mean the skeptic zone will be 10 00:00:50,860 --> 00:00:46,790 broadcast or net cast webcast in 12 11 00:00:53,109 --> 00:00:50,870 different years it's just ridiculous 12 00:00:56,469 --> 00:00:53,119 coming up on this week's show Heidi 13 00:01:00,429 --> 00:00:56,479 Robinson with an update on last week's 14 00:01:03,009 --> 00:01:00,439 stories revolving around the the 7:30 15 00:01:06,249 --> 00:01:03,019 report the ABC TV news program in 16 00:01:06,940 --> 00:01:06,259 Australia about the node jam no play 17 00:01:09,609 --> 00:01:06,950 laws 18 00:01:12,219 --> 00:01:09,619 well this update revolves around the 19 00:01:14,410 --> 00:01:12,229 reaction to that report and also a 20 00:01:18,310 --> 00:01:14,420 second update by Jane Hansen as well 21 00:01:23,020 --> 00:01:18,320 about the success of this sort of 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:23,030 legislation no jab no pay and no Jeb no 23 00:01:27,309 --> 00:01:26,210 play looks like the anti-vaxxers are on 24 00:01:29,559 --> 00:01:27,319 the back foot 25 00:01:32,559 --> 00:01:29,569 following that it's a bit of good 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:32,569 old-fashioned skepticism with a story I 27 00:01:38,230 --> 00:01:35,329 report about astrology remember that 28 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:38,240 just yeah I remember astrology it's the 29 00:01:42,219 --> 00:01:40,310 good old days of skepticism and this 30 00:01:43,779 --> 00:01:42,229 comes to us from the pages of the 31 00:01:45,789 --> 00:01:43,789 skeptic magazine the journal from 32 00:01:46,690 --> 00:01:45,799 Australian skeptics it's a fascinating 33 00:01:49,389 --> 00:01:46,700 report 34 00:01:51,819 --> 00:01:49,399 I love poring through the back issues of 35 00:01:53,859 --> 00:01:51,829 the skeptic magazine and this is simply 36 00:01:56,109 --> 00:01:53,869 one of the thousands upon thousands of 37 00:01:58,539 --> 00:01:56,119 reports and interviews available to you 38 00:02:02,260 --> 00:01:58,549 at skeptics calm dot a you an 39 00:02:04,899 --> 00:02:02,270 interesting look at astrology from an 40 00:02:07,629 --> 00:02:04,909 astronomer and we have a report from the 41 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:07,639 diet skeptic mandala Noble this week 42 00:02:12,460 --> 00:02:09,709 Mandy will be looking at the keto or 43 00:02:14,199 --> 00:02:12,470 ketogenic diet especially for those 44 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:14,209 people who are looking to make New 45 00:02:18,970 --> 00:02:16,130 Year's Eve resolutions New Year's 46 00:02:21,370 --> 00:02:18,980 resolutions about another diet now 47 00:02:23,230 --> 00:02:21,380 thinking about the keto diet I'm not - I 48 00:02:25,180 --> 00:02:23,240 don't know too much about this diet so 49 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:25,190 I'm looking forward to this myself the 50 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:27,410 diet skeptic will tell you all about the 51 00:02:31,990 --> 00:02:29,330 research and the results of the 52 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:32,000 ketogenic diet then to round off the 53 00:02:36,759 --> 00:02:34,040 show but luster 54 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:36,769 last bit of a skeptic zone for 2018 bit 55 00:02:41,979 --> 00:02:38,810 of Internet nonsense with the Maynard 56 00:02:45,660 --> 00:02:41,989 and I reading out some of the crazy 57 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:45,670 wacky things and heave axes say online 58 00:02:51,849 --> 00:02:48,890 and this sir was found at the the 59 00:02:53,410 --> 00:02:51,859 BuzzFeed website now before we get stuck 60 00:02:56,349 --> 00:02:53,420 into the show I've been told there's a 61 00:02:59,289 --> 00:02:56,359 skeptic camp coming up in Monterey 62 00:03:02,589 --> 00:02:59,299 California on the fifth the fifth of 63 00:03:04,209 --> 00:03:02,599 January pretty soon I've in the general 64 00:03:07,210 --> 00:03:04,219 area it's not out of the question I 65 00:03:08,229 --> 00:03:07,220 might be able to make it there no 66 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:08,239 promises 67 00:03:13,270 --> 00:03:11,120 my timing here is a little bit uncertain 68 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:13,280 at the moment anyway for more 69 00:03:18,909 --> 00:03:15,290 information about skeptic camp coming up 70 00:03:21,069 --> 00:03:18,919 in Monterey on the 5th of January check 71 00:03:23,949 --> 00:03:21,079 out this week's episode for the show 72 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:23,959 notes but now it's time for me to run 73 00:03:30,429 --> 00:03:28,010 upstairs defrost a pizza and all I'm 74 00:03:31,090 --> 00:03:30,439 doing that I hope you enjoy the skeptic 75 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:31,100 zone 76 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:39,410 [Music] 77 00:04:03,050 --> 00:03:52,850 it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi 78 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:03,060 Robertson hello everyone Heidi Robertson 79 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:05,130 from the Northern Rivers vaccination 80 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:11,150 supporters from the Sunday Telegraph on 81 00:04:24,430 --> 00:04:16,410 Sunday December the 23rd 2018 by Jane 82 00:04:28,130 --> 00:04:24,440 Hansen no jab no wins as experts hit ABC 83 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:28,140 probe acts policy applauded as 7:30 s 84 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:33,090 claims ridiculed furious medical experts 85 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:36,930 and parents have smashed the ABC's 730 86 00:04:42,410 --> 00:04:40,290 program for claiming no jab no play is 87 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:42,420 excluding some children from early 88 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:45,720 childhood education instead of leaving 89 00:04:52,130 --> 00:04:48,510 ant I've experienced secluded from 90 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:52,140 society the no jab no player policy is 91 00:04:58,010 --> 00:04:54,690 directly responsible for saving lives 92 00:05:01,400 --> 00:04:58,020 and boosting falling immunization rates 93 00:05:03,530 --> 00:05:01,410 experts said adding vaccination is safe 94 00:05:07,070 --> 00:05:03,540 for children and parents have no reason 95 00:05:08,990 --> 00:05:07,080 to fear it meanwhile parents such as 96 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:09,000 Catherine and Greg Hughes the parents of 97 00:05:15,350 --> 00:05:11,280 Riley Hughes who died of whooping cough 98 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:15,360 at just four weeks of age in 2015 said 99 00:05:20,570 --> 00:05:17,130 they knew how it felt for their son to 100 00:05:23,150 --> 00:05:20,580 be excluded quote we do know how that 101 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:23,160 feels because you know who won't be able 102 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:26,430 to attend kindy next year Riley they 103 00:05:33,340 --> 00:05:28,430 said in a statement 104 00:05:36,850 --> 00:05:33,350 on Tuesdays ABC 7:30 mother Katharina 105 00:05:39,969 --> 00:05:36,860 Gorka claimed her youngest was a victim 106 00:05:41,980 --> 00:05:39,979 of the policy because quote because they 107 00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:41,990 have a set opinion on vaccinations and 108 00:05:47,890 --> 00:05:44,500 that's not going to change and quote 109 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:47,900 quote it makes me feel like we're but 110 00:05:54,749 --> 00:05:51,289 secluded from society end quote 111 00:05:58,689 --> 00:05:54,759 miss Gorka told the 7:30 program 112 00:06:01,330 --> 00:05:58,699 Mullumbimby mother Jessica Goliath was 113 00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:01,340 furious only 50 percent of 114 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:03,110 five-year-olds are vaccinated in her 115 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:06,289 town quote I think my kids are at a 116 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:09,530 disadvantage in my community your child 117 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:11,570 might miss out on early education but my 118 00:06:14,350 --> 00:06:13,490 child could catch whooping cough and die 119 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:14,360 end quote 120 00:06:20,379 --> 00:06:18,710 she said quote I think no job no play is 121 00:06:23,020 --> 00:06:20,389 the best the government can do to 122 00:06:26,890 --> 00:06:23,030 encourage parents not to follow the 123 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:26,900 anti-vaxxer end end quote the grieving 124 00:06:33,189 --> 00:06:29,210 parents of Dana McCaffrey who died from 125 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:33,199 whooping cough in 2009 also said no job 126 00:06:39,159 --> 00:06:36,650 no play was the catalyst for change Toni 127 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:39,169 McCaffrey maintains her newborn picked 128 00:06:43,089 --> 00:06:40,820 up whooping cough when she dropped her 129 00:06:46,390 --> 00:06:43,099 older children at a daycare center that 130 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:46,400 had an outbreak quote nothing has worked 131 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:48,289 in the past to increase vaccination 132 00:06:53,740 --> 00:06:51,289 rates whereas no jab no play is steadily 133 00:06:58,270 --> 00:06:53,750 increasing rates end quote 134 00:07:00,370 --> 00:06:58,280 mrs. McCaffrey said 7:30 story suggested 135 00:07:02,230 --> 00:07:00,380 childcare centers in northern New South 136 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:02,240 Wales were facing closure due to 137 00:07:07,930 --> 00:07:04,570 unvaccinated children being ineligible 138 00:07:10,330 --> 00:07:07,940 but a check of child care vacancies in 139 00:07:13,089 --> 00:07:10,340 northern New South Wales showed four 140 00:07:15,279 --> 00:07:13,099 centers in Mullumbimby were full and the 141 00:07:17,980 --> 00:07:15,289 fifth the Mullumbimby community 142 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:17,990 preschool had vacancies only on a 143 00:07:23,260 --> 00:07:19,810 Thursday and Friday 144 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:23,270 nearby Byron Bay had no vacancies at its 145 00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:26,530 five preschools or daycare centres 146 00:07:31,450 --> 00:07:29,030 Roxanne Elliot from the care for kids 147 00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:31,460 website which Maps child care vacancies 148 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:34,580 australia-wide said the policy has had 149 00:07:41,810 --> 00:07:37,690 no negative effects anywhere else 150 00:07:44,940 --> 00:07:41,820 quote wait lists are still very strong 151 00:07:48,420 --> 00:07:44,950 some services are experiencing vacancies 152 00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:48,430 but only due to oversupply but there is 153 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:51,520 no correlation to this and no job no 154 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:52,090 play 155 00:07:59,040 --> 00:07:56,530 end quote she said dr. Andrew McDonald a 156 00:08:00,920 --> 00:07:59,050 Campbell town pediatrician and former 157 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:00,930 New South Wales shadow health minister 158 00:08:07,170 --> 00:08:03,370 said while he was initially hesitant 159 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:07,180 about no jab no play he had seen at work 160 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:11,910 quote like magic in western Sydney 161 00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:14,830 Australian Medical Association president 162 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:18,910 dr. Tony Bartone II said no job no play 163 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:21,250 had worked where other measures had 164 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:24,810 failed quote we would have preferred 165 00:08:30,570 --> 00:08:27,760 education and incentives rather than the 166 00:08:33,719 --> 00:08:30,580 big stick but all other measures had not 167 00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:33,729 worked and when misinformed parents are 168 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:35,950 putting other children at risk measures 169 00:08:42,029 --> 00:08:37,750 need to be taken 170 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:42,039 end quote he said and the following 171 00:08:52,140 --> 00:08:47,290 story comes to us today Sunday the 30th 172 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:52,150 of December 2018 and it's another story 173 00:09:01,110 --> 00:08:54,490 from Jane Hanson from The Daily 174 00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:01,120 Telegraph quote 500 children a day catch 175 00:09:08,820 --> 00:09:04,120 up on vaccinations thanks to know jab 176 00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:08,830 law more than 500 children a day have 177 00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:10,900 caught up with their vaccinations since 178 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:14,680 July the first thanks to new no job no 179 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:18,460 pay changes government data obtained 180 00:09:24,540 --> 00:09:20,820 exclusively by The Sunday Telegraph 181 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:24,550 shows 80,000 children have caught up in 182 00:09:31,170 --> 00:09:27,130 the five months between July the 1st and 183 00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:31,180 November the 30th the surge in numbers 184 00:09:35,730 --> 00:09:33,880 is a result of a change that reduces 185 00:09:39,870 --> 00:09:35,740 appearance fortnightly Family Tax 186 00:09:42,750 --> 00:09:39,880 Benefit Part A installments by about $28 187 00:09:46,340 --> 00:09:42,760 per fortnight for each child that does 188 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:46,350 not meet the immunization requirements 189 00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:50,250 the government gave the families of 190 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:51,500 245,000 191 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:54,050 children a sixty three day grace period 192 00:10:00,010 --> 00:09:57,530 to catch up on all shots and a third of 193 00:10:04,420 --> 00:10:00,020 those about eighty thousand children are 194 00:10:06,250 --> 00:10:04,430 now on schedule quote this means on 195 00:10:09,460 --> 00:10:06,260 average more than five hundred children 196 00:10:10,990 --> 00:10:09,470 a day who did not meet immunization 197 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:11,000 requirements when this new policy 198 00:10:16,870 --> 00:10:15,290 started on 1st of July 2018 have taken 199 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:16,880 action end quote 200 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:21,250 a department spokesman said about 201 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:24,170 110,000 did not respond within the grace 202 00:10:31,270 --> 00:10:27,410 period and a further forty thousand are 203 00:10:32,740 --> 00:10:31,280 still within a grace period the data 204 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:32,750 shows that since the government 205 00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:35,930 introduced its initial no jab no paid 206 00:10:44,980 --> 00:10:41,680 policy on January the 1st 2016 almost 207 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:44,990 250,000 children and their families have 208 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:47,260 taken action to ensure they meet 209 00:10:53,830 --> 00:10:51,590 immunization requirements Australia now 210 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:53,840 has the highest vaccination rate on 211 00:10:59,079 --> 00:10:56,930 record with ninety four point six two 212 00:11:02,230 --> 00:10:59,089 percent of children aged five years 213 00:11:04,450 --> 00:11:02,240 fully immunized up to point zero three 214 00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:04,460 percentage points since before the 215 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:05,440 changes 216 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:08,510 Tony McCaffrey who lost her baby Dana to 217 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:11,600 whooping cough in 2009 when vaccination 218 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:13,490 rates were sliding to dangerously low 219 00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:16,490 levels has supported the no jab no play 220 00:11:21,610 --> 00:11:19,910 pay policies because quote nothing else 221 00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:21,620 was working end quote 222 00:11:26,829 --> 00:11:23,839 quote the data shows the policies are 223 00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:26,839 working and saving lives more children 224 00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:28,910 are protected and this makes childcare 225 00:11:33,250 --> 00:11:31,400 and preschool safer and healthier for 226 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:33,260 everyone end quote 227 00:11:38,050 --> 00:11:36,110 she said Catherine and Greg Hughes who 228 00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:38,060 lost their baby son Riley to whooping 229 00:11:45,579 --> 00:11:42,800 cough in 2015 agreed quote the numbers 230 00:11:46,690 --> 00:11:45,589 are phenomenal we are thrilled that so 231 00:11:49,090 --> 00:11:46,700 many more children are getting 232 00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:49,100 vaccinated thanks to the no jab no pay 233 00:11:54,430 --> 00:11:51,920 policy this policy is making a real 234 00:11:56,350 --> 00:11:54,440 difference to children's lives ensuring 235 00:11:59,380 --> 00:11:56,360 they are protected against diseases that 236 00:12:01,420 --> 00:11:59,390 could potentially kill them end quote 237 00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:01,430 mrs. Hughes said 238 00:12:07,129 --> 00:12:05,040 quote ideally education would be enough 239 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:07,139 to convince all parents that vaccination 240 00:12:12,619 --> 00:12:09,690 is the right thing but with the global 241 00:12:15,889 --> 00:12:12,629 rise of anti vaccination and anti 242 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:15,899 science ideology we think strong policy 243 00:12:24,019 --> 00:12:20,930 like no jab no pay is needed end quote 244 00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:24,029 New South Wales has also achieved its 245 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:26,220 highest vaccination rates with the 246 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:28,290 figures for children fully vaccinated at 247 00:12:37,059 --> 00:12:31,410 five years of age increasing by over 6% 248 00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:37,069 from 2010 to 2018 249 00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:40,470 Isabel born Ellis was born ten weeks 250 00:12:46,540 --> 00:12:43,439 premature in August 2017 251 00:12:51,079 --> 00:12:46,550 djao mother suffering preeclampsia 252 00:12:54,139 --> 00:12:51,089 Isabel weighed a tiny 900 grams and as a 253 00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:54,149 result her parents Katie and Chris have 254 00:12:59,869 --> 00:12:56,519 always made sure she is up-to-date with 255 00:13:02,090 --> 00:12:59,879 her vaccines quote I've always been a 256 00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,100 believer and made sure she is up to date 257 00:13:07,340 --> 00:13:04,560 because she was so little and we wanted 258 00:13:09,889 --> 00:13:07,350 to keep her protected she'll have her 18 259 00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:09,899 months shots in February end quote 260 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:12,990 she said increasing activity of anti 261 00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:16,050 vaccine is online has prompted the New 262 00:13:20,269 --> 00:13:17,880 South Wales healthcare Complaints 263 00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,279 Commission to issue a new warning about 264 00:13:25,730 --> 00:13:23,040 anti vaccination campaigners quote and 265 00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:25,740 the potential risks that such persons 266 00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:28,560 and associations pose to the public 267 00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:31,380 health and safety health consumers 268 00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:33,540 should be particularly wary of persons 269 00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:36,360 claiming to be experts or to have 270 00:13:42,740 --> 00:13:39,240 conducted research into the safety and 271 00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:42,750 efficacy of vaccines or immunization 272 00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:45,300 programs in circumstances where they do 273 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:48,240 not hold relevant medical qualifications 274 00:13:53,870 --> 00:13:50,490 and are not a registered health 275 00:13:57,889 --> 00:13:53,880 practitioner end quote the December 18 276 00:14:01,220 --> 00:13:57,899 warning reads so that's great news a lot 277 00:14:04,369 --> 00:14:01,230 more kids have now been caught up on 278 00:14:05,630 --> 00:14:04,379 their vaccinations and as a result the 279 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:05,640 community is 280 00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:10,730 safer and for now that's all for me and 281 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:13,840 I'll catch you next time bye for now 282 00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:23,990 you're not gonna say Bigfoot's BS but 283 00:14:27,410 --> 00:14:25,920 the chupacabra is totally the result of 284 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:27,420 top-secret government genetic 285 00:14:32,420 --> 00:14:30,030 experiments on remote island taking 286 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:32,430 medical advice from iguanas Paltrow like 287 00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:33,930 steaming your lady parts and putting 288 00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:36,390 Jade eggs all up in net is a great way 289 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:38,760 to improve your health police from 290 00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:41,010 around the world regularly use psychics 291 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:43,620 to solve crimes they just don't talk 292 00:14:48,830 --> 00:14:46,290 about it spontaneous human combustion is 293 00:14:50,690 --> 00:14:48,840 for sure a real thing I've read all 294 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:50,700 about it on the Internet and I worry 295 00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:54,450 someday it's going to happen to me we 296 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:55,860 all have friends and family who believe 297 00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:58,290 these things and much more well if 298 00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:00,180 you're a rational thinker who is tired 299 00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:01,950 of arguing on social media and never 300 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:03,870 getting anywhere we have a solution for 301 00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,450 you join the guerrilla skepticism on 302 00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:08,880 wikipedia team and we will teach you how 303 00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:11,310 to add reliable scientific and skeptical 304 00:15:16,370 --> 00:15:13,230 information to the world's number-one 305 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:16,380 source of information Wikipedia we write 306 00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,330 new articles and improve existing ones 307 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,880 we remove pseudoscience paranormal and 308 00:15:25,190 --> 00:15:23,040 altmed claims substituting the actual 309 00:15:27,890 --> 00:15:25,200 facts and we operate in many languages 310 00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,900 we've already reached tens of millions 311 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:30,240 of people searching for information but 312 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:32,250 as you can imagine we can never do 313 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:35,310 enough so please join us all you need is 314 00:15:40,670 --> 00:15:38,130 a PC a Facebook account and a desire to 315 00:15:42,350 --> 00:15:40,680 help educate the planet in fact you'll 316 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:42,360 be educating the world while you sleep 317 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:47,090 contact us at G is owt at gmail.com 318 00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,490 guerrilla skepticism the time is now 319 00:16:01,740 --> 00:15:53,120 music by purple planet calm 320 00:16:08,610 --> 00:16:04,550 now some of you may know the wonders the 321 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:08,620 magic the untold pleasure of jet lag 322 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:11,890 which I suffer from when I travel across 323 00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:15,250 the Pacific so the other night unable to 324 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:18,430 sleep I tuned in to Sydney radio and 325 00:16:26,730 --> 00:16:21,310 came across the late-night session on 326 00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:26,740 radio 2gb of an astrologer in this case 327 00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:28,750 Milton black now Milton black has been a 328 00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:29,380 year 329 00:16:34,890 --> 00:16:31,900 prominent astrology in Australia for 330 00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:34,900 decades I think you'd have to say I once 331 00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:36,460 cross swords with Milton black on 332 00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:41,350 national TV maybe 10 years ago and well 333 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:43,660 I'll had a link in this week's show 334 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:45,570 notes you can see the video for yourself 335 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:48,370 but it inspired me to dive into the 336 00:16:53,190 --> 00:16:51,190 pages at the skeptic magazine and do a 337 00:16:55,710 --> 00:16:53,200 search on astrology and I came up with a 338 00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:55,720 very interesting article printed way 339 00:17:02,700 --> 00:16:59,920 back in September 1984 and this is from 340 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:02,710 volume four number three of the skeptic 341 00:17:06,689 --> 00:17:04,930 again I will link to this issue in the 342 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:06,699 show notes because all the back issues 343 00:17:11,579 --> 00:17:09,310 of the skeptic bar the last year going 344 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:11,589 back to 1981 are available for you 345 00:17:18,179 --> 00:17:15,610 online to peruse and enjoy for free this 346 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:18,189 item appears on page 23 and it's by 347 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:23,730 Philip Ayane in astronomers view on 348 00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:28,919 one of the impressive things about 349 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:32,230 astrology today is the extent to which 350 00:17:38,159 --> 00:17:35,650 it pervades our culture more people know 351 00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:38,169 their star sign then know their blood 352 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:41,020 type and you can find zodiac motifs on 353 00:17:45,870 --> 00:17:42,370 almost anything 354 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:45,880 for example the ANZ Bank in Australia 355 00:17:53,330 --> 00:17:50,320 has advertised a Zodiac savers plan to 356 00:17:57,180 --> 00:17:53,340 some this is just amusing but too many 357 00:17:59,100 --> 00:17:57,190 astrology is the Space Age science the 358 00:18:01,740 --> 00:17:59,110 guide to their personal lives and 359 00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:01,750 business several companies have been 360 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:04,240 reported to use horoscopes to find the 361 00:18:10,110 --> 00:18:06,730 optimum time to introduce a new product 362 00:18:12,810 --> 00:18:10,120 into the marketplace or to judge what 363 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:12,820 job a particular person might be best 364 00:18:17,820 --> 00:18:15,130 suited for a kidnapping trial in 365 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:17,830 Cincinnati several years ago the defense 366 00:18:23,549 --> 00:18:20,530 attorneys consulted astrologists for 367 00:18:26,850 --> 00:18:23,559 guidance with the selection of a jury in 368 00:18:28,980 --> 00:18:26,860 a Florida rape case there was an attempt 369 00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:28,990 to have the charges dismissed on the 370 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:33,100 grounds unfavorable celestial influences 371 00:18:38,820 --> 00:18:35,890 were at the root of the crime how you 372 00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:38,830 react to these stories no doubt depends 373 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:41,470 to some degree on whether or not you see 374 00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:44,049 astrology as valid or invalid or 375 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:47,080 somewhere in between scientists have 376 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:48,970 been inclined to ignore astrology or 377 00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:52,570 dismiss it as nonsense but really we 378 00:18:59,340 --> 00:18:56,340 should ask might astrology in fact work 379 00:19:02,159 --> 00:18:59,350 have astrologists found fundamental laws 380 00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:02,169 governing our behavior what is the 381 00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:05,500 mechanism if any producing the effects 382 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:08,590 claimed astrology is a system whereby 383 00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:11,350 the patterns of planets in the sky can 384 00:19:18,490 --> 00:19:14,350 be interpreted to reveal personality and 385 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:18,500 predict events we perhaps all know the 386 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:21,110 if you are born with the same Capricorn 387 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:23,990 you are said to be neat methodical and 388 00:19:30,430 --> 00:19:27,610 have an extreme capacity for hard work 389 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:30,440 planetary patterns are also alleged to 390 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:33,050 yield information about the life of a 391 00:19:39,630 --> 00:19:36,130 business a building for a whole nation 392 00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:39,640 recently John Miller of New York City 393 00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:42,580 suggested a relationship between 394 00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:46,100 transits by the moon of Sirius the dog 395 00:19:54,790 --> 00:19:50,150 star and the enactment there of the dog 396 00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:54,800 litter law the so called pooper scooper 397 00:20:00,970 --> 00:19:58,400 statute the typical natal horoscope maps 398 00:20:03,340 --> 00:20:00,980 for a specific time of birth and 399 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:03,350 location the positions of the planets 400 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:05,810 with respect to the signs of the zodiac 401 00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:09,260 and the twelve houses the horoscope 402 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:12,880 analysis is carried out by combining or 403 00:20:19,180 --> 00:20:15,770 synthesizing of the many various 404 00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:19,190 indicators of the chart the astrology 405 00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,200 might look at the distribution of the 406 00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:23,360 planets around the chart the occurrence 407 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:26,180 of the planets and the cardinal mutable 408 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:29,330 or fixed signs the ascendant sign the 409 00:20:33,790 --> 00:20:31,910 Sun sign the moon sign other planets in 410 00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:33,800 the signs planets and the astrological 411 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:36,470 houses the angular relationships or 412 00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:39,170 aspects of the planets hypothetical 413 00:20:43,630 --> 00:20:41,900 planets and a few other things if all 414 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:43,640 the chart factors that have been 415 00:20:51,070 --> 00:20:46,730 produced were to be included a few 416 00:20:53,380 --> 00:20:51,080 thousand million it would take about 300 417 00:20:55,660 --> 00:20:53,390 kilometres of computer printout to list 418 00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,670 them the interpretation of all this 419 00:21:00,880 --> 00:20:57,760 information means yet another matter 420 00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:00,890 astrologers often do not agree with one 421 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:02,900 another about the factors in the chart 422 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:05,330 there are no Maxwell's equations of 423 00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:08,810 astrology all of this bears little 424 00:21:16,110 --> 00:21:12,240 resemblance to astronomy 425 00:21:19,409 --> 00:21:16,120 astronomy is a science it has most 426 00:21:21,389 --> 00:21:19,419 precise descriptions and the evidence of 427 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:21,399 its success in seeking the secrets of 428 00:21:24,539 --> 00:21:21,970 the universe 429 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:24,549 is there for all to see through 430 00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:26,350 astronomy and physics and related 431 00:21:29,850 --> 00:21:28,809 technologies we have sampled and 432 00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:29,860 scrutinized 433 00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:33,070 distant planets and their moons we know 434 00:21:37,889 --> 00:21:35,289 our sign as a garden-variety star like 435 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:37,899 billions of others making up the clouds 436 00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:40,809 of the Milky Way all of the stars 437 00:21:46,399 --> 00:21:43,360 contain the same chemical elements and 438 00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:46,409 operate with the same physics 439 00:21:52,169 --> 00:21:49,240 astronomers have examined great clouds 440 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:52,179 of hydrogen where the stars are born the 441 00:21:56,669 --> 00:21:54,370 debris is left over when stars explode 442 00:21:59,340 --> 00:21:56,679 near the end of their lifetimes and have 443 00:22:02,430 --> 00:21:59,350 gone on to find there is galaxy after 444 00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:02,440 galaxy after distant galaxies like our 445 00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:05,529 own Milky Way these marvelous truths are 446 00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:08,559 not self-evident but come only after 447 00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:10,840 hundreds of years of very hard work and 448 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:13,600 it has required thousands of individuals 449 00:22:18,419 --> 00:22:16,570 trying new ideas and curious about 450 00:22:21,389 --> 00:22:18,429 nature making mistakes 451 00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:21,399 finding new information adopting new 452 00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,340 viewpoints in order to understand 453 00:22:30,330 --> 00:22:26,640 something about how the universe behaves 454 00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:30,340 on the other hand the astrologers appear 455 00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:32,529 to have uncritically adopted any 456 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:34,809 combination or permutation of factors 457 00:22:40,590 --> 00:22:37,510 they could think of in a horoscope 458 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:40,600 without any appeal to evidence they have 459 00:22:46,889 --> 00:22:43,600 not appreciated how we as fallible 460 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:46,899 humans are inaccurate biased observers 461 00:22:53,789 --> 00:22:50,250 of the world it is not adequate to trust 462 00:22:56,810 --> 00:22:53,799 intuition or our impressions of things 463 00:22:59,460 --> 00:22:56,820 we do need experiment and evidence a 464 00:23:02,510 --> 00:22:59,470 number of astrologers have wanted at 465 00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:02,520 least a scientific origin for astrology 466 00:23:07,769 --> 00:23:05,440 mark Edmund Jones has argued that 467 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:07,779 astrology arose empirically when man 468 00:23:13,139 --> 00:23:09,970 began to observe correspondence between 469 00:23:16,049 --> 00:23:13,149 the events in his life and seasons and 470 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:16,059 celestial phenomena the historical 471 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:18,340 record shows astrology beginning about 472 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:21,190 5000 years ago in Mesopotamia then 473 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:24,490 astrology consisted of very simple 474 00:23:29,310 --> 00:23:26,530 about the appearance of the moon and the 475 00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:29,320 planets in the sky but if the sky is 476 00:23:34,530 --> 00:23:31,750 bright when the new moon appears the 477 00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:34,540 year will be good end quote such sayings 478 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:37,300 were only a minor part of a very 479 00:23:43,049 --> 00:23:40,450 superstitious culture where any event in 480 00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:43,059 nature of almost any sort was read as a 481 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:46,720 potent of some future event people 482 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:48,550 looked for meaning in the migration of 483 00:23:54,750 --> 00:23:51,130 animals storms patterns of animal 484 00:23:57,690 --> 00:23:54,760 entrails patterns in flour or oil thrown 485 00:24:01,290 --> 00:23:57,700 into an urn of water like reading the 486 00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:01,300 tea leaves was this empirical consider 487 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:05,440 the typical birth omen quote if a woman 488 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:08,110 gives birth to an elephant the land will 489 00:24:14,010 --> 00:24:10,890 be laid to waste unquote 490 00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:14,020 surely this and similar omens including 491 00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:16,750 those astrological are not based on 492 00:24:21,570 --> 00:24:19,780 observable fact as far as can be 493 00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:21,580 determined there is no recorded 494 00:24:26,669 --> 00:24:24,000 historical evidence to suggest any 495 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:26,679 astrological tenants were originally 496 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:30,370 empirical a problem for the scientists 497 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:32,530 has been trying to understand what 498 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:35,890 plausible physical mechanism could 499 00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:38,410 possibly produce the astrological 500 00:24:44,930 --> 00:24:41,470 effects astrologers have occasionally 501 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:44,940 dropped vague allusions to gravity or 502 00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:47,290 electromagnetic radiation of some 503 00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:50,559 undiscovered kind as sources gravity 504 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,990 seems unlikely the pull of the doctor in 505 00:24:58,049 --> 00:24:55,360 the delivery room is stronger than most 506 00:25:00,660 --> 00:24:58,059 planets and the astrologist certainly do 507 00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:00,670 not speak of quote inverse squares in 508 00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:04,179 quote effects radiation doesn't seem 509 00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:06,580 likely either unless you want to add the 510 00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:08,910 delivery room lights in the chart 511 00:25:14,790 --> 00:25:11,679 indicators for they are far stronger 512 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:14,800 than planetary radiation nor does 513 00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:17,890 particle radiation appear to correlate 514 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:20,260 with astrological effects the 515 00:25:25,180 --> 00:25:22,570 astrologist seem to be stuck with a 516 00:25:27,609 --> 00:25:25,190 quote missing link in quote 517 00:25:30,639 --> 00:25:27,619 the crucial question however is whether 518 00:25:34,419 --> 00:25:30,649 or not natal horoscopes fit the lives of 519 00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:34,429 people first two interesting examples 520 00:25:38,529 --> 00:25:36,169 for astrologers at work 521 00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:38,539 to quote an anecdote from a recent 522 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:41,840 astrology text one prominent astrologer 523 00:25:46,239 --> 00:25:44,330 just having impressed a client with an 524 00:25:48,609 --> 00:25:46,249 accurate description of what was going 525 00:25:50,919 --> 00:25:48,619 on in her life discovered she had been 526 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:50,929 using the wrong chart one for a 527 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:53,690 different client astrologers frequently 528 00:25:58,419 --> 00:25:56,210 study the lives of famous people Winston 529 00:26:01,509 --> 00:25:58,429 Churchill is a good example of someone 530 00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:01,519 about whom a great deal astrological has 531 00:26:06,479 --> 00:26:04,070 been written especially with regard to 532 00:26:09,210 --> 00:26:06,489 the timing of events in his life 533 00:26:14,169 --> 00:26:09,220 unfortunately for a long while 534 00:26:17,379 --> 00:26:14,179 Churchill's birth time was unknown AGS 535 00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:17,389 Norris who did much of his work used a 536 00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:20,960 chart rigorously recertified by several 537 00:26:26,109 --> 00:26:23,809 methods ie the birth time is inferred 538 00:26:29,139 --> 00:26:26,119 from astrological correspondence with 539 00:26:31,930 --> 00:26:29,149 documented events of the predicted 540 00:26:34,019 --> 00:26:31,940 ascendant Norris wrote hope if it were 541 00:26:36,999 --> 00:26:34,029 proved wrong which is almost 542 00:26:38,649 --> 00:26:37,009 inconceivable the blow to directional 543 00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:38,659 astrology would be a serious one 544 00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:41,840 important subsequently the birth time of 545 00:26:47,379 --> 00:26:43,720 Churchill was discovered and published 546 00:26:49,629 --> 00:26:47,389 the rectified time was about two and a 547 00:26:51,399 --> 00:26:49,639 half hours too late moreover at least 548 00:26:55,749 --> 00:26:51,409 half a dozen rectifications had been 549 00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:55,759 published none of them identical all of 550 00:27:00,669 --> 00:26:59,090 them wrong astrological personality 551 00:27:04,029 --> 00:27:00,679 descriptions are usually not very 552 00:27:06,879 --> 00:27:04,039 specific experiments by psychologists 553 00:27:08,589 --> 00:27:06,889 show people are inclined to believe any 554 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:08,599 horoscope if they are told it was 555 00:27:15,369 --> 00:27:11,210 especially prepared for them to 556 00:27:16,930 --> 00:27:15,379 illustrate this in April 1968 Michelle 557 00:27:19,749 --> 00:27:16,940 goir keelin placed an ad in a magazine 558 00:27:23,409 --> 00:27:19,759 offering a free horoscope and analysis 559 00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:23,419 to anyone who would write in he sent the 560 00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:25,700 identical computer horoscope to each 561 00:27:30,099 --> 00:27:27,950 respondent with the questionnaire 562 00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:30,109 soliciting comments on the quality of 563 00:27:36,909 --> 00:27:34,460 the analysis of 150 replies 94 found the 564 00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:36,919 fake horoscope accurately described 565 00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,220 their character 566 00:27:43,399 --> 00:27:40,320 there are personal problems and the 567 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:43,409 cycles of events in their life 90 found 568 00:27:48,529 --> 00:27:45,570 the accuracy confirmed by family and 569 00:27:51,409 --> 00:27:48,539 friends the wrong horoscopes into each 570 00:27:54,529 --> 00:27:51,419 person was the birthdate of a doctor 571 00:27:56,770 --> 00:27:54,539 pre-op a notorious criminal who had 572 00:27:59,539 --> 00:27:56,780 murdered several dozen people and 573 00:28:01,159 --> 00:27:59,549 dissolved their bodies in life 574 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:01,169 it is one of the most common 575 00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:03,450 associations in traditional astrology 576 00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:06,720 that occupation personality traits and 577 00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:09,809 physical characteristics vary according 578 00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:13,740 to sun signs it is their easy to check 579 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:16,289 up on this claim for example according 580 00:28:22,210 --> 00:28:20,130 to Margaret hone an Aries person is 581 00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:22,220 expected to have several characteristics 582 00:28:27,710 --> 00:28:24,200 including red hair 583 00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:27,720 Raja Culver gathered a sample of three 584 00:28:32,270 --> 00:28:30,270 hundred redhead individuals to see if 585 00:28:35,870 --> 00:28:32,280 most of them might have been born under 586 00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:35,880 Aries and they weren't he found their 587 00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:38,460 birth signs to be about equally divided 588 00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:41,400 between all twelve zodiacal signs the 589 00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:44,340 study of GA Tyson of ten thousand three 590 00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:46,230 hundred thirteen university graduates 591 00:28:51,770 --> 00:28:48,809 over a 10-year period examined the 592 00:28:55,250 --> 00:28:51,780 relationship between date of birth and 593 00:28:58,190 --> 00:28:55,260 career no relationship between birth 594 00:29:00,250 --> 00:28:58,200 date and Korea was found other studies 595 00:29:02,690 --> 00:29:00,260 comparing standardized personality 596 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:02,700 inventories were of sun-sign estimates 597 00:29:09,140 --> 00:29:05,490 shown no significant correlations 598 00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:09,150 nor do supposedly incompatible science 599 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:10,860 show up in marriage or divorce 600 00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:13,730 statistics a few weeks ago at the 601 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:16,799 University of Virginia we tested an 602 00:29:22,490 --> 00:29:19,289 astrologer John McColl who claimed an 603 00:29:24,350 --> 00:29:22,500 80% success rate at distinguishing the 604 00:29:26,779 --> 00:29:24,360 correct horoscopes for an individual 605 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:26,789 from three false ones on the basis of 606 00:29:32,180 --> 00:29:29,730 observed physical characteristics this 607 00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:32,190 was a double-blind test and no one knew 608 00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:34,140 the correct answers until after the 609 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:36,750 experiment had been performed for twenty 610 00:29:42,140 --> 00:29:39,210 eight subjects mr. McCall was right only 611 00:29:44,590 --> 00:29:42,150 seven times just what is to be expected 612 00:29:47,390 --> 00:29:44,600 by chance 613 00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:47,400 finally one of the most comprehensive 614 00:29:53,390 --> 00:29:50,190 studies to date is an elaborate 615 00:29:56,540 --> 00:29:53,400 investigation of New York's suicides by 616 00:29:59,330 --> 00:29:56,550 astrologer Norah Press and several 617 00:30:01,790 --> 00:29:59,340 colleagues suicides were chosen because 618 00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:01,800 they could give a well-defined event 619 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:05,340 time and it is such an extreme personal 620 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:08,730 action so some tendency towards suicide 621 00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:11,330 should appear in their birth chart 622 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:14,580 approximately 100,000 different factors 623 00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:18,090 were examined for the sample of 311 624 00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:21,120 suicides the study failed to identify 625 00:30:27,650 --> 00:30:23,960 any factor in the birth chart 626 00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,660 significantly related to suicide there 627 00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:29,520 is overwhelming evidence showing 628 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:33,120 astrology cannot do what is claimed for 629 00:30:36,290 --> 00:30:35,370 it moreover it seems to me that 630 00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:36,300 astrology 631 00:30:41,660 --> 00:30:39,270 although offering psychological solace 632 00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:41,670 to those who believe has never 633 00:30:49,010 --> 00:30:44,910 contributed in any useful way to the 634 00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:49,020 advancement of knowledge and again that 635 00:30:55,650 --> 00:30:52,040 comes to us from the skeptic magazine 636 00:30:59,200 --> 00:30:55,660 from September 1984 637 00:31:03,990 --> 00:30:59,210 and I note that this was reprinted with 638 00:31:06,669 --> 00:31:04,000 permission from the laboratory news and 639 00:31:08,410 --> 00:31:06,679 again this is just one of hundreds of 640 00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:08,420 thousands of articles and reports 641 00:31:11,710 --> 00:31:10,940 available at your fingertips at skeptics 642 00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:11,720 calm 643 00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:13,510 da-rae you 644 00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:27,680 in Redford here if I can have a minute 645 00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,980 of your time I'd like to shamelessly 646 00:31:33,020 --> 00:31:30,960 plug my new book it's called 647 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:33,030 investigating ghosts the scientific 648 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:35,460 search for spirits examines ghost 649 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:37,170 hunting and ghost investigations from 650 00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:39,210 historical cultural and evidence based 651 00:31:44,270 --> 00:31:41,460 perspective from the Victorian era to 652 00:31:46,340 --> 00:31:44,280 modern TV ghost hunters it is in a way a 653 00:31:48,110 --> 00:31:46,350 follow-up to my 2010 book scientific 654 00:31:50,390 --> 00:31:48,120 paranormal investigation how to solve 655 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:50,400 unexplained mysteries that book was more 656 00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:51,650 general covering everything from 657 00:31:56,390 --> 00:31:54,000 psychics to crop circles to monsters and 658 00:31:58,700 --> 00:31:56,400 ghosts but I realized that ghost or a 659 00:32:00,590 --> 00:31:58,710 special category not only are ghosts the 660 00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:00,600 most popular paranormal pursuit but 661 00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:02,220 ghost hunting also has its own set of 662 00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:04,320 assumptions and challenges the book will 663 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:06,600 be available soon for under 20 bucks and 664 00:32:14,140 --> 00:32:11,890 for more information on the book and me 665 00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:14,150 check out Benjamin Radford com please 666 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,000 [Music] 667 00:32:34,610 --> 00:32:28,110 that looks good enough to eat 668 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:34,620 or does it here's the diet sceptic 669 00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:42,130 mandala noble aloe skeptic sign 670 00:32:53,149 --> 00:32:46,990 listeners mantle a noble here dietitian 671 00:33:00,480 --> 00:32:56,490 welcome skeptics and listeners to this 672 00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:00,490 week's almost sneezy diet skeptic report 673 00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:04,960 and as you may have guessed I have been 674 00:33:12,289 --> 00:33:08,590 inspired by all those social media ads I 675 00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:12,299 haven't seen encouraging me to kick off 676 00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:18,399 20,000 and 19 with a diet and the one 677 00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:20,590 diet that seems to be the most 678 00:33:28,649 --> 00:33:23,440 recommended for this year's life change 679 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:28,659 is the ketogenic or keto diet so I've 680 00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:31,570 had a little drive into the evidence 681 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:34,240 relating to keto diets to see if what I 682 00:33:43,230 --> 00:33:39,010 read in the media fits the facts I'm 683 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:43,240 going to unpack five claims I have heard 684 00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:46,090 recently or read recently made about 685 00:33:52,889 --> 00:33:49,270 keto diets but before I begin I would 686 00:33:55,169 --> 00:33:52,899 like to make this little covet the 687 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:55,179 evidence shows that the diet may be 688 00:34:00,269 --> 00:33:57,610 suitable for some people with certain 689 00:34:03,630 --> 00:34:00,279 medical conditions but should not be 690 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:03,640 used for the general public or as a long 691 00:34:09,389 --> 00:34:06,370 term diet so when I examine the 692 00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:09,399 ketogenic diet in this report it will be 693 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:12,520 as it is formulated in the research for 694 00:34:18,210 --> 00:34:16,330 weight loss that is normally a period of 695 00:34:21,149 --> 00:34:18,220 around three months on a strict 696 00:34:23,399 --> 00:34:21,159 ketogenic protocol followed by a 697 00:34:26,430 --> 00:34:23,409 maintenance diet which is most often a 698 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:26,440 low-carb diet or the Mediterranean diet 699 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:30,010 I will also mention that many of the 700 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:32,850 interventions that was in the research 701 00:34:38,150 --> 00:34:35,850 also had a physical activity component 702 00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:38,160 and that this physical activity 703 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:41,310 component would have contributed to the 704 00:34:49,060 --> 00:34:43,890 positive results that were attributed to 705 00:34:53,630 --> 00:34:49,070 the ketogenic diet so claim number one 706 00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:53,640 the ketogenic diet is perfect for weight 707 00:35:02,060 --> 00:34:58,020 loss to evaluate this claim we must 708 00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:02,070 first consider what we already know 709 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:05,550 about weight loss the evidence we have 710 00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:08,730 to date is that weight regain is common 711 00:35:14,750 --> 00:35:11,790 after weight loss that is achieved with 712 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:14,760 diet and exercise weight loss is maximum 713 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:17,610 at six to twelve months and then 714 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:19,730 regardless of the amount of weight lost 715 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:22,770 most weight is regained within a two 716 00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:25,710 year period and by five years the 717 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:27,150 majority of people are at their 718 00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:30,690 pre-intervention body weight that is 719 00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:33,060 evidence from our National Health and 720 00:35:39,620 --> 00:35:36,480 Medical Research Council what it tells 721 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:39,630 us is that for the ketogenic diet to be 722 00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:42,090 the perfect diet it needs to demonstrate 723 00:35:45,140 --> 00:35:44,460 that weight loss can be maintained for 724 00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:45,150 two years 725 00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:48,060 and ideally can demonstrate weight loss 726 00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:50,820 to five years to that end I made a 727 00:35:59,150 --> 00:35:55,500 fairly thorough search of all randomized 728 00:36:04,070 --> 00:35:59,160 control trials of ketogenic diets and I 729 00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:04,080 found over 60 of these only six studies 730 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:08,160 had two years follow-up the results for 731 00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:09,810 the participants under research 732 00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:13,140 conditions showed maximum weight loss at 733 00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:17,400 six months followed by weight regain in 734 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:21,630 all trials and no studies went beyond 735 00:36:30,170 --> 00:36:27,450 two years conclusion today the evidence 736 00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:30,180 does not demonstrate that the ketogenic 737 00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:33,150 diet is more successful than any other 738 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:37,080 diet for long-term weight loss okay 739 00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:40,310 let's move on to claim number two a 740 00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:43,500 greater proportion of fat will be lost 741 00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:45,990 from the abdominal cavity 742 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:49,800 some studies did demonstrate a decrease 743 00:36:55,550 --> 00:36:52,950 in waist circumference however similar 744 00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:55,560 to changes in weight the maximum 745 00:37:01,339 --> 00:36:58,980 decrease was at six months followed by 746 00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:01,349 an increase towards pre-intervention 747 00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:04,910 weight circumference at two years 748 00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:08,760 conclusion to date the evidence does not 749 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:11,310 demonstrate that the ketogenic diet is 750 00:37:15,770 --> 00:37:14,010 more successful than any other diet for 751 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:15,780 long term reduction in waist 752 00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:20,730 circumference claim number three it can 753 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:24,089 achieve a dramatic improvement in lipid 754 00:37:32,089 --> 00:37:28,650 profiles the studies regarding lipid 755 00:37:34,359 --> 00:37:32,099 profiles were conflicting some showed no 756 00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:34,369 significant difference from baseline 757 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:37,140 others showed that triglycerides like 758 00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:39,810 weight and waist circumference seem to 759 00:37:44,660 --> 00:37:42,300 be most improved at six months and they 760 00:37:48,859 --> 00:37:44,670 seem to be returning to pre intervention 761 00:37:51,050 --> 00:37:48,869 levels at two years another study found 762 00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,060 greater improvements in lipid profile 763 00:37:55,310 --> 00:37:53,040 from participants on the low-carb 764 00:37:59,180 --> 00:37:55,320 ketogenic diet compared to a 765 00:38:02,089 --> 00:37:59,190 Mediterranean or low-fat diet conclusion 766 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:02,099 the evidence seems conflicting and more 767 00:38:07,099 --> 00:38:04,250 research is needed to confirm results 768 00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:07,109 also physical activity has a known 769 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:10,560 benefit to lipid profiles and may have 770 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:12,570 contributed to the positive results 771 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:16,050 claim number four the ketogenic diet 772 00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:19,650 will reduce your appetite some research 773 00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:23,040 has shown that ghrelin the appetite 774 00:38:30,579 --> 00:38:26,820 stimulating hormone is suppressed while 775 00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:30,589 participants were in ketosis have a once 776 00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:32,820 participant switch to the maintenance 777 00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:33,540 diet 778 00:38:40,490 --> 00:38:37,920 ghrelin levels rose significantly this 779 00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:40,500 would match the results observed in 780 00:38:46,130 --> 00:38:44,040 studies comparing ketogenic diets to 781 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:46,140 other diets where initial weight loss 782 00:38:52,329 --> 00:38:49,890 was greater on the ketogenic diet but 783 00:38:56,589 --> 00:38:52,339 that was fired by greater weight regain 784 00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:56,599 even the most frenetic of ketogenic diet 785 00:39:03,480 --> 00:38:59,680 proponents medical doctor Andres 786 00:39:05,809 --> 00:39:03,490 Enfield concedes most people end up 787 00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:05,819 dipping in and out of ketosis 788 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:09,430 semi-regularly anyway and it's a hard 789 00:39:16,620 --> 00:39:13,930 thing to always be in deep ketosis his 790 00:39:19,799 --> 00:39:16,630 solution to clients who follow the 791 00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:19,809 ketogenic diet but do not lose weight is 792 00:39:24,799 --> 00:39:21,790 to consider adding intermittent fasting 793 00:39:28,620 --> 00:39:24,809 to another client he provided these 794 00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:28,630 reassuring words an alternative can be a 795 00:39:37,260 --> 00:39:32,040 need for starvation that is rarely 796 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:37,270 sustainable or empowering conclusion 797 00:39:43,770 --> 00:39:40,210 maybe the ketogenic diet does reduce 798 00:39:46,650 --> 00:39:43,780 appetite while you are in ketosis but 799 00:39:50,190 --> 00:39:46,660 this may not help maintain weight loss 800 00:39:53,970 --> 00:39:50,200 as weight regain mainly occurs in the 801 00:39:57,150 --> 00:39:53,980 maintenance period Romanian ketosis is 802 00:39:59,780 --> 00:39:57,160 hard and not recommended for the general 803 00:40:02,660 --> 00:39:59,790 public and we all seem to agree that 804 00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:02,670 starvation is not a sustainable solution 805 00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:08,400 and finally number 5 the ketogenic diet 806 00:40:15,690 --> 00:40:13,270 improves biomarkers for diabetes in the 807 00:40:20,490 --> 00:40:15,700 studies that reported the participants 808 00:40:22,859 --> 00:40:20,500 average hba1c an indication of how much 809 00:40:26,339 --> 00:40:22,869 sugar you've had in your blood over the 810 00:40:28,589 --> 00:40:26,349 past few months the results were not 811 00:40:32,329 --> 00:40:28,599 significantly different between the 812 00:40:36,059 --> 00:40:32,339 groups on a low-carb ketogenic diet or a 813 00:40:38,130 --> 00:40:36,069 low-fat diet both followed the same 814 00:40:41,039 --> 00:40:38,140 trajectory as weight and waist 815 00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:41,049 circumference been at the lowest level 816 00:40:46,530 --> 00:40:43,569 at six months followed by an increase 817 00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:46,540 towards pre-intervention levels at two 818 00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:50,740 years conclusion to date the evidence 819 00:40:55,260 --> 00:40:52,960 does not demonstrate that the ketogenic 820 00:40:57,450 --> 00:40:55,270 diet is more successful than any other 821 00:41:01,980 --> 00:40:57,460 diet for long term reduction in 822 00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:01,990 biomarkers for diabetes there are some 823 00:41:07,799 --> 00:41:04,780 other concerns about the ketogenic diet 824 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:07,809 and those include that a keto diet may 825 00:41:13,590 --> 00:41:12,490 be high in unhealthy saturated fats low 826 00:41:16,290 --> 00:41:13,600 in fiber 827 00:41:19,110 --> 00:41:16,300 which can affect heart health some 828 00:41:21,870 --> 00:41:19,120 chronic disease can increase bowel 829 00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:21,880 problems and risk of bowel cancer and 830 00:41:27,150 --> 00:41:24,340 that a keto diet may be missing 831 00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:27,160 important vitamins such as thiamine 832 00:41:33,590 --> 00:41:30,400 folate vitamin A E b6 833 00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:33,600 calcium magnesium iron and potassium 834 00:41:40,350 --> 00:41:37,510 there have also been some negative 835 00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,360 effects of the keto diet reported and 836 00:41:46,830 --> 00:41:42,900 these include fatigue constipation 837 00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:46,840 headache bad breath feeling sick 838 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:50,310 dizziness dehydration bowel problems 839 00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:53,250 high cholesterol kidney problems 840 00:42:00,660 --> 00:41:57,690 osteoporosis due to lack of calcium and 841 00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:00,670 rapid weight regain when normal diet 842 00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:05,710 regimes of the one study that I reviewed 843 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:08,260 where the participants symptoms were 844 00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:11,850 recorded the group on the low-carb 845 00:42:18,330 --> 00:42:15,040 ketogenic diet reported significantly 846 00:42:22,620 --> 00:42:18,340 higher levels of bad breath constipation 847 00:42:26,190 --> 00:42:22,630 and dry mouth so skeptics as normal you 848 00:42:28,620 --> 00:42:26,200 will find general evidence based dietary 849 00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:28,630 recommendations for ensuring you receive 850 00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:31,440 all the nutrients required for health at 851 00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:35,440 WWE TLC o VA you if you're in Australia 852 00:42:40,980 --> 00:42:38,200 or on your country's Department of 853 00:42:43,380 --> 00:42:40,990 Health website anyone starting a 854 00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:43,390 ketogenic diet should do so under 855 00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:46,060 clinical supervision along with the help 856 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:48,060 of an accredited practicing dietitian 857 00:43:00,750 --> 00:42:51,370 until next year skeptics I wish you love 858 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:10,410 [Music] 859 00:43:16,660 --> 00:43:13,809 hi this is dr. Pamela gay from astronomy 860 00:43:18,579 --> 00:43:16,670 cast each week Fraser Cain and I take 861 00:43:20,770 --> 00:43:18,589 our listeners on a fact-based journey 862 00:43:23,530 --> 00:43:20,780 through the cosmos with our weekly 863 00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:23,540 podcast we explain not just what we know 864 00:43:29,170 --> 00:43:26,329 but how we know what we know about this 865 00:43:31,630 --> 00:43:29,180 universe that we share check us out at 866 00:43:34,030 --> 00:43:31,640 astronomy cast calm and look for us in 867 00:43:37,850 --> 00:43:34,040 itunes google play and wherever you 868 00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:37,860 download podcasts see online 869 00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:51,910 [Music] 870 00:43:58,750 --> 00:43:56,000 now here's a story that was a stories of 871 00:44:02,260 --> 00:43:58,760 such an article that was published at 872 00:44:04,660 --> 00:44:02,270 BuzzFeed BuzzFeed calm links in this 873 00:44:06,670 --> 00:44:04,670 week's show notes and I can't vouch who 874 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:06,680 this one folks I don't know how many of 875 00:44:10,270 --> 00:44:08,330 these are true I suspect all of them are 876 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:10,280 but I don't know I guess in a way it 877 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:12,130 doesn't matter too much it quite funny 878 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:15,770 and this is along the lines of dumbest 879 00:44:24,030 --> 00:44:19,370 things anti-vaxxers actually said in 880 00:44:27,130 --> 00:44:24,040 2018 compiled by David stew Pyrrha and 881 00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:27,140 with a little help from Maynard we read 882 00:44:35,740 --> 00:44:32,900 on the plague somebody posted my point 883 00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:35,750 was the plague disappeared without a 884 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:38,720 vaccine yeah because people died you an 885 00:44:44,860 --> 00:44:42,890 educated potato on the flu shot the flu 886 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:44,870 is killing up to four thousand Americans 887 00:44:49,930 --> 00:44:47,570 a week this is why I refused to take the 888 00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:49,940 flu shot on health 889 00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:52,880 if vaccines were healthy you could put 890 00:44:58,270 --> 00:44:55,670 it on a spoon and eat it try it you'll 891 00:44:59,710 --> 00:44:58,280 die half broccoli was healthy you could 892 00:45:02,890 --> 00:44:59,720 put it in a syringe and inject it into 893 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:02,900 your bloodstream try it you'll die on me 894 00:45:08,830 --> 00:45:06,050 Szell's when you realize measles 895 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:08,840 protects against cancer you understand 896 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:11,410 why the industry wants to prevent it on 897 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:15,650 research friends I am desperate here 898 00:45:20,770 --> 00:45:18,650 I am a newly non vaccinator and I want 899 00:45:23,260 --> 00:45:20,780 to write about vaccination dangers for 900 00:45:26,860 --> 00:45:23,270 my final thesis in college however I 901 00:45:29,860 --> 00:45:26,870 have to use scholarly journals etc as my 902 00:45:32,590 --> 00:45:29,870 sources when I do a search deep into G s 903 00:45:35,290 --> 00:45:32,600 user library every article seems to be 904 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:35,300 probe acts and nothing supporting my 905 00:45:40,750 --> 00:45:38,210 argument does anyone have some scholarly 906 00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:40,760 Doc's that I can use to prove my point 907 00:45:46,670 --> 00:45:43,950 effectively thank you all 908 00:45:48,650 --> 00:45:46,680 love heart blood heart the fact that you 909 00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:48,660 cannot find any journals to back up your 910 00:45:54,290 --> 00:45:50,910 viewpoint may suggest you need to 911 00:45:57,859 --> 00:45:54,300 reassess your viewpoint on chickenpox 912 00:46:02,480 --> 00:45:57,869 can anybody answer me why kids don't get 913 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:02,490 chickenpox no more or was we experiments 914 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:07,050 as kids I need answers vaccinations on 915 00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:11,730 giving birth Texas 14 year old virgin 916 00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:14,940 falls pregnant after flu shot he'll know 917 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:17,760 why myself all my kids will never get 918 00:46:25,010 --> 00:46:21,930 the flu shot one of many reasons on the 919 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:25,020 government let's not forget about 920 00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:28,290 anti-vaxxers there have been multiple 921 00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:30,780 scientific studies on the dangers of 922 00:46:37,940 --> 00:46:35,089 vaccinations show me one please 923 00:46:39,579 --> 00:46:37,950 government controls the internet now so 924 00:46:43,849 --> 00:46:39,589 I can't find what I'm looking for 925 00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:43,859 thanks for trying on polio I don't 926 00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:46,230 believe that one single vaccine is bad I 927 00:46:52,940 --> 00:46:48,180 believe that a hundred and twenty eight 928 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:52,950 vaccines by age 12 is bad based on based 929 00:46:58,130 --> 00:46:56,010 on we vaccine more than any other 930 00:47:00,770 --> 00:46:58,140 country in the world and are slowly 931 00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:00,780 declining on our life expectancy in the 932 00:47:06,859 --> 00:47:04,140 United States where are you getting 128 933 00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:06,869 everything I've read is seventy doses of 934 00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:10,680 16 vaccines over 18 years you know 935 00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:14,460 what's worse than 70 doses polio polio 936 00:47:21,470 --> 00:47:16,710 hasn't been a factor in 60 years at 937 00:47:24,740 --> 00:47:21,480 least why is that on outbreaks with the 938 00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:24,750 headline CDC monitoring measles outbreak 939 00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:27,750 in 21 states including Michigan 940 00:47:31,099 --> 00:47:29,940 please don't vaccinate I don't want my 941 00:47:35,359 --> 00:47:31,109 kids getting the measles 942 00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:35,369 that's not how vaccines work on science 943 00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:39,780 the meme says did you know that vaccine 944 00:47:44,809 --> 00:47:41,910 ingredients are considered poisonous on 945 00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:44,819 their own but when mixed and injected 946 00:47:51,339 --> 00:47:48,510 they become magically safe hashtag 947 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:51,349 because a science with the dollar sign 948 00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:55,130 sodium poisonous chlorine poisonous 949 00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:56,940 sodium chloride 950 00:48:04,849 --> 00:48:01,440 not poisonous actual science on the 951 00:48:07,250 --> 00:48:04,859 Bible with the headline anti-vaxxer 952 00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:07,260 warrior mom the effect scenes are so 953 00:48:13,579 --> 00:48:09,119 great why aren't they mentioned in the 954 00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:13,589 Bible on playing God with three 955 00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:16,079 unvaccinated adult children and three 956 00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:18,480 unvaccinated granddaughters all 957 00:48:22,550 --> 00:48:20,790 extremely healthy I will continue to 958 00:48:25,309 --> 00:48:22,560 question everything I put into my body 959 00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:25,319 as they will there is plenty of evidence 960 00:48:30,050 --> 00:48:27,780 to show us that quote playing God in 961 00:48:32,990 --> 00:48:30,060 quote with the human body and without 962 00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,000 planet is dangerous the human body is 963 00:48:39,980 --> 00:48:35,520 self developing self maintaining and 964 00:48:42,829 --> 00:48:39,990 self healing it needs no help just no 965 00:48:46,849 --> 00:48:42,839 interference and yet you're wearing 966 00:48:49,970 --> 00:48:46,859 glasses in your profile pic on getting 967 00:48:52,490 --> 00:48:49,980 sick I wish I would have never had been 968 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:52,500 given the shot I've had it ever since I 969 00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:55,410 was a baby I did an experiment on myself 970 00:49:00,380 --> 00:48:57,450 and didn't get the flu shot for three 971 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:00,390 years in a row got the flu super bad 972 00:49:06,740 --> 00:49:03,210 every single year and ended up in 973 00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,750 hospital so sadly I must get it even 974 00:49:12,140 --> 00:49:08,400 though I don't fully trust it 975 00:49:14,180 --> 00:49:12,150 modern medicine for you lol you know 976 00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:14,190 I've never heard this before are you 977 00:49:19,819 --> 00:49:16,920 saying because you got the flu shot as a 978 00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:19,829 kid you now have to get it each year or 979 00:49:25,130 --> 00:49:22,470 else you get the flu yeah I never get 980 00:49:28,010 --> 00:49:25,140 the flu when I get the shot but if I 981 00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:28,020 don't get the shot I get the flu really 982 00:49:35,809 --> 00:49:32,400 badly on mercury mercury in seafood 983 00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:35,819 equals not okay especially because you 984 00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:36,420 are pregnant 985 00:49:42,170 --> 00:49:38,910 mercury injected into babies bodies 986 00:49:43,569 --> 00:49:42,180 equals okay not it does not work that 987 00:49:47,049 --> 00:49:43,579 way 988 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:47,059 things idiots say isn't there a distinct 989 00:49:51,549 --> 00:49:48,650 difference in the mercury chemical 990 00:49:54,969 --> 00:49:51,559 makeup in vaccines and in nature fish 991 00:49:57,999 --> 00:49:54,979 etc I don't know about makeup since I 992 00:50:01,359 --> 00:49:58,009 literally have never even owned makeup 993 00:50:03,449 --> 00:50:01,369 in my life but CDC swears up and down it 994 00:50:08,289 --> 00:50:03,459 is safe in vaccines because it is a 995 00:50:11,469 --> 00:50:08,299 quote preservative end quote well how is 996 00:50:15,099 --> 00:50:11,479 it okay there but not okay as a 997 00:50:18,009 --> 00:50:15,109 preservative in food on evidence don't 998 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:18,019 overmedicate your dog vets pushed this 999 00:50:23,859 --> 00:50:20,450 stuff like doctors push vaccinations 1000 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:23,869 that's a stretch zero scientific 1001 00:50:27,969 --> 00:50:26,450 evidence human vaccines do harm I sleep 1002 00:50:30,489 --> 00:50:27,979 well at night knowing I won't die from 1003 00:50:31,170 --> 00:50:30,499 rubella or polio but that's just me call 1004 00:50:35,019 --> 00:50:31,180 me crazy 1005 00:50:36,940 --> 00:50:35,029 do some research please do share I did a 1006 00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:36,950 four-year medical degree but maybe you 1007 00:50:43,150 --> 00:50:40,150 know more than me that says it all and 1008 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:43,160 those gems come to us from BuzzFeed I'll 1009 00:50:48,969 --> 00:50:46,130 link to it in this week's show notes and 1010 00:50:51,309 --> 00:50:48,979 true or not I suspect they were true not 1011 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:51,319 true or not it is typical of some of the 1012 00:51:14,949 --> 00:50:53,930 things anti-vaxxers actually say 1013 00:51:21,319 --> 00:51:17,299 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1014 00:51:24,199 --> 00:51:21,329 zone for 2018 I don't want to predict 1015 00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,209 what's going to happen in 2019 the only 1016 00:51:29,359 --> 00:51:26,160 thing I will predict is there will 1017 00:51:32,269 --> 00:51:29,369 probably be another skeptic zone episode 1018 00:51:35,209 --> 00:51:32,279 coming up and if all goes well there'll 1019 00:51:38,959 --> 00:51:35,219 be another roughly 52 skeptic zone 1020 00:51:41,620 --> 00:51:38,969 episodes coming up for 2019 and the only 1021 00:51:44,809 --> 00:51:41,630 reason there are so many skeptics tones 1022 00:51:47,059 --> 00:51:44,819 coming up and have been in the past well 1023 00:51:49,939 --> 00:51:47,069 partly because of my wonderful reporters 1024 00:51:52,189 --> 00:51:49,949 Mandee Lee Noble and Maynard and Heidi 1025 00:51:55,789 --> 00:51:52,199 Robertson who you heard in this week's 1026 00:51:58,459 --> 00:51:55,799 episode but largely it's due to people 1027 00:52:01,999 --> 00:51:58,469 like you who contribute via patreon or 1028 00:52:06,169 --> 00:52:02,009 PayPal at skeptic zone TV without funds 1029 00:52:08,479 --> 00:52:06,179 the show simply could not continue so a 1030 00:52:11,029 --> 00:52:08,489 big end of you thank you to all those 1031 00:52:14,509 --> 00:52:11,039 people who do in fact contribute to the 1032 00:52:16,699 --> 00:52:14,519 skeptic zone but for this year 1033 00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:16,709 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1034 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:24,089 from the Bay Area San Francisco you've 1035 00:52:30,909 --> 00:52:25,890 been listening to the skeptic zone 1036 00:52:34,489 --> 00:52:30,919 podcast please visit our website at WWDC 1037 00:52:37,279 --> 00:52:34,499 for show notes contacts and to access 1038 00:52:40,909 --> 00:52:37,289 the bat catalog of episodes going back 1039 00:52:44,539 --> 00:52:40,919 to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone 1040 00:52:46,939 --> 00:52:44,549 podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit 1041 00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:46,949 our facebook page or leave a review on 1042 00:52:50,509 --> 00:52:47,839 itunes 1043 00:52:53,899 --> 00:52:50,519 you can also support the skeptic zone 1044 00:52:56,620 --> 00:52:53,909 via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone 1045 00:52:58,999 --> 00:52:56,630 podcast is an independent production 1046 00:53:01,130 --> 00:52:59,009 reviews and opinions expressed on the 1047 00:53:03,469 --> 00:53:01,140 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 1048 00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:03,479 of Australian skeptics or any other 1049 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:05,270 skeptical organization 1050 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:21,090 ensuring they are protected against 1051 00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:24,330 diseases that could but oh my god that's 1052 00:53:35,450 --> 00:53:27,520 those are playing with these chicken 1053 00:53:35,460 --> 00:53:41,810 sorry I'll give it back to you no just 1054 00:53:51,780 --> 00:53:45,150 calm yourself all right you got to stay 1055 00:53:57,900 --> 00:53:51,790 out there no you got to go out go on